41 posts
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Post by Ella on Aug 29, 2015 22:02:25 GMT -8
So this is just a thought on how Social Skills relates to IC employment.
If a character puts in sufficient RP in an IC job and grows within that organization, would it be possible to have an appropriate increase in social standing? As it kind of makes sense that as one grows up in position, he/she will definitely be known more?
Also, with regards to the following Martial Skill :
"Demonhunter, Greywalker, Lightslayer
There are certain beings that don't belong; demons, elementals, and all other creatures that come from other planes. Supernatural and often magically potent, the Demonhunters, Greywalkers, and Lightslayers, excel at combating these dangerous extraplanar interlopers.
Requirements: 9 Fighting, 7 Shadows, 7 Resolve, used when fighting elementals, demons, other summoned creatures.
Benefits: When in combat against a summoned being, the character may attempt to banish their opponent. This may be done any combat round after the summoned being has lost half their Hit Points or more. Any successful attack the character makes against the summoned being causes them to roll Resolve vs Resolve. If the character wins, the summoned being is automatically banished.
For Greywalkers, instead of banishing the summoned entity, they gain control of it until the end of the combat scene.
Demonhunters are good-aligned characters, Greywalkers are neutral-aligned, Lightslayers are evil-aligned characters. Effects only occur when dealing with opposing aligned entities for Demonhunters and Lightslayers. Greywalkers are effective against everyone."
Is it possible to maybe consider adding an option wherein a character with 7 Magic, instead of shadows, can also progress in this skill? As for example, Numinous Blades are paladins that are -expected- to counter other realm -evil- creatures. And shadows is not a skill that many might possess if they are good-aligned characters that Demonhunters are supposed to be. It would be cool if that option were provided.
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Post by alecksin on Aug 29, 2015 22:10:59 GMT -8
I think that the skill was made here for fighter characters that cannot reasonably ever learn magic, and need other ways as anti-summoned-creature characters to fight them and banish them, but I am interested in what discussion comes of this, as it is interesting. I do think though, that the point will come up that Numinous Blades are Combat Mages, with Mages being the most important part in that sentence. They can therefore learn banishment as a spell, giving them that ability as an option already. Some characters cannot do the same, hence why there is a Martial skill for it. As for SS, it is an interesting idea, however certain characters would get outrageous boosts just because they hold an IC high position. While many definitely have earned it, I think that RP logs and our current progress system is the best way to go to ensure there is merit. Someone shouldn't just jump the ranks in any trait because of their position in a Business or faction. That's like jumping the ranks in magic or fighting for being a high position in a certain guild. You have to remember, all traits are still traits nevertheless. If one is given leeway, then what is to say others can't be? Not to say I wouldn't benefit. I would have 10 SS if such a thing was made true on Aradhelon!  |
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Post by Shayariel on Aug 29, 2015 23:04:07 GMT -8
What we had in a prior sim I played in was a so called "Hero System".
It was something to reward at least IC leaders and officers of groups, to whom members of a group sooooooo often still look up to get roleplay from them (invented and run). It resulted in IC officers of a group as well as IC leaders of a group getting a bunch more points to spend on their technical character options.
For IoV that might mean - depending on balance - 1-3 trait points for IC officers, and 2-6 points for IC leaders for example.
Surely now that would not be applicable for a single business like smith, tavernkeeper, undertaker, baker and the like, but I would assume that business owners could well bunch up, OOC and later IC, and apply for and form a Trader's Guild or the like...
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41 posts
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Post by Ella on Aug 29, 2015 23:16:21 GMT -8
Fair enough! If it is mainly intended for non magical characters I see your point about Demonhunters. Still though making shadows mandatory is kind of nagging at me somehow. Maybe if it is split based on what the person aims to be, as Demonhunters, Greywalkers and Lightslayers are pretty much different things based on different characteristic aims and aspirations. As for SS, perhaps instead of an actual skill point, maybe a Bonus to rolls pertinent to that particular field when necessary? It could be a nice perk is all!  Thank you for the clarifying replies and thoughts! |
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3,197 posts
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Post by Lιттle Ƭree (Cedar Ashland) on Aug 29, 2015 23:51:45 GMT -8
Well we do have certain skills that can only be gained based on the craft you RP. The infirmary and blacksmithing skills. While we aren't adverse to more for others, we haven't the ideas for what might be worthwhile and in need of a skill at all.
Take wardens and guard for example. Most anything I would think of for them would be better served as a general martial skill.
Alecksin pretty much hit it on the head though. Mages have banishment and castigation. The skill is for those without magic. And ss gained in the IC job is great. Fill out the app to improve ss and log the rps as you go. That's what progression is all about.
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Cyn
Denizen
Existence questionable.
98 posts
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Post by Cyn on Sept 3, 2015 12:21:55 GMT -8
I actually agree with Ella in this case, but not exactly as she stated it. Shadows isn't going to be a terribly universal trait for all sides of the spectrum this particular skill represents.
I absolutely love the skill, but perhaps making it an option between Shadows and Social Standing, or just switching the Shadows requirement over to Knowledge (which I see as a pretty general trait)?
Just a thought!
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Cyn
Denizen
Existence questionable.
98 posts
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Post by Cyn on Sept 3, 2015 12:26:47 GMT -8
Also, pretend that post was remotely coherent.
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Post by Tief on Sept 3, 2015 19:48:32 GMT -8
There are three things that you need to remember about this style. This is one of the few abilities in the game that can immediately eject a character from the scene, louse up the relationship between two characters or force one player to give up control of their character to another player for the duration of said scene - indeed, Greywalker is actually the hidden gem in this style.
The choice of required skills was no accident; they were specifically chosen to create a set of skills that would not be commonly attained; if you want to be a Demonhunter/Lightslayer/Greywalker you have to invest above the norm to attain it and gain expertise in traits that may not be considered a traditional selection for a fighter type.
When it comes to rationalization, we could argue for months without end, because almost anything can be rationalized if you yell loud enough. Shadows is an excellent choice because on the roleplaying side it represents knowledge in darker arts - for example, a good person must know enough about demons (shadow folk) to be able to banish them, on the evil side, well, banishing someone isn't the most friendly thing in the world. Tongue in cheek, on the game mechanics side, being able to boot someone out of play is definitely a dark art. Knowledge represents the encyclopedic range of specific knowledge on each type banishable entity the character may run into at any time, any place on Valesk.
Thus the difficulty in attaining this ability. One of the other things this does - which was part of its development - was to make sure that, like Magebane, there would not be that many floating across the island; its a rare style - if you run into a Demonslayer or Magebane, you should be scared of them as a legendary rather than common occurrence.
Last, the truly humorous story in this whole matter was how Greywalkers got invented ...
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Cyn
Denizen
Existence questionable.
98 posts
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Post by Cyn on Sept 5, 2015 1:49:12 GMT -8
My suggestion for knowledge was function and ease of access for the variety of characters this skill may fit or benefit. =) As Shadows stands, I tend to read it more as a stealth and general crime trait. Pickpocketing, lockpicking, etc. The way it's outlined currently, I don't see it as a good representation of a Numinous Blades knowledge of exorcisms/banishments.
On that point, I think the Knowledge trait would make a great switch there. Knowledge of the arcane arts and summoning practices sounds much more applicable in terms of both lore and function - at least, in my opinion, considering that Knowledge is a very general trait which can apply to many different things. This would simply be yet another area a character can decide to apply their Knowledge trait when learning the skill IC, or beginning with it at character creation.
That being said, I'm mostly discussing just to discuss, as I see Shadows slightly differently than it appears to be represented in this case. ^^
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9,653 posts
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Post by Cailean on Sept 5, 2015 14:31:28 GMT -8
The idea is more that shadows is not just sneaking, skulking, stealing, etc, it's that it's also assassination and other roguery, as evidenced by the fact that shadows also allows you to have some skill in alchemy (poisons, venoms, toxins, etc and such here). This means that it can be extended to bounty hunting along with assassination, which the next step here is just that these people specialize in the hunting of other planar creatures.
It's just something to add for flavor. If anything, we /could/ add knowledge on top of shadows if you guys think it's necessary. ;ppp
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Post by zak on Sept 6, 2015 9:21:48 GMT -8
i have no problem with the way that the traits - in general, rather than specifically assigned to this Skill - are lined up and explained. It allows us to have as -FEW- traits as possible that require numbers, while still covering all of the RPG basic of Physical prowess, adroitness, stealth and secrecy, knowledge and perception, nature and wilderness skills, etc.
If we broke these traits down into more common D&D or RPG attributes, well then we would need to add more and other things and complicate things more. I like the overlap of some Traits, I also like how some traits mean more than one, two, or three things. Though this does lead towards something where a character with /x/ trait who ISN'T supposed to be good at a specific thing, may also be good at that thing (My character Sovelis, while being a Half-elf using a crossbow, is supposedto be a GREAT shot with his modified and magical crossbow. but he's not supposed to be perceptive or wilderness-y. However Huntsman makes him both).
That Tangent aside and moving back towards the specifics of the Slayer/Bane skill(s):
Mechanically Speaking, tief has it absolutely right IMO. If someone is trying to build a crazy awesome, 'perfect build' character, they might not invest that many points into those select traits because it would diminish their effectiveness in other traits, so it isn't something that someone can just 'pick up' when the meet the requirements down the line. Also, it DOES require them to put after-creation-effort into advancing those traits and learning the skills.
But there's one other thing we need to look at. This isn't a Single-Player RPG, nor is it a Small-Party Tabletop RPG. This is a Community with many people. So instead of throwing in half a dozen trait requirements and a Storyweaver quest, why not put more in there that makes it a suitably lengthy process but also touches on more people?
Master Smith or a group of smiths to make the runed blade.
Enchanters to weave the magics.
Plenty of materials that need to be bought or found.
Perhaps even require some special materials that require Social Standing to acquire and/or Knowledge to work with.
Alot of this is already baked into the requirements, but I would make it the Forefront of the requirements. That in order to even ATTEMPT to learn these skills, you need this weapon. Once you have this weapon, it's the lynchpin to the entire Demon/light-slayer/greywalker skillset. Anyone can put in the effort to get the weapon, but only after they have the weapon do they need to meet the trait requirements and put forth the training/advancement roleplay instances with someone that already knows one of these styles or a storyweaver.
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3,197 posts
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Post by Lιттle Ƭree (Cedar Ashland) on Sept 6, 2015 15:01:53 GMT -8
(My character Sovelis, while being a Half-elf using a crossbow, is supposedto be a GREAT shot with his modified and magical crossbow. but he's not supposed to be perceptive or wilderness-y. However Huntsman makes him both).
No. He is however you envision him. Just because Huntsman /allows/ for him to be good at both, does not make it required.
Food for thought.
As for your suggestion that actually makes it way more complicated and difficult than intended. But a creative idea nonetheless. Thanks!
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